Intro, Graeme Dinwoodie
Ornamentality is undertheorized. Relationship to use as a
trademark; symmetry b/t types of use that might allow acquisition of rights v.
types of use that might infringe? Past issues like TM use and failure to
function may appear in a new light through the lens of ornamentality. Janis
& Dinwoodie were not fans of symmetry in P v. D, but ornamentality is
interesting b/c it might divest you of rights, but also might help prove nonfunctionality
for protection purposes. Some cases say that ornamentality can bolster
secondary meaning even if it’s not enough in itself to establish rights. Also
links to abandonment: what does it take to maintain use? Ornamental use
may help to maintain rights even if core uses cease. Can it be used in different
ways in TM as a thumb on the scale rather than a binary? 2d Cir in Descriptive
fair use—how “pure” is the descriptive character of the use? Could we do
something similar in ornamentality? But is the doctrine clear enough to make
this a helpful consideration or will it just become part of the mud? In TM, if secondary
meaning and nonsecondary meaning are entangled we often still protect the
former, in contrast to © where merger often means unprotectability. [RT: I
would say lots of courts in © also try to reduce merger to meaning that you can
do anything but copy verbatim, which is a narrowing that many courts in TM don’t
bother with, though some variants of Rogers v. Grimaldi are trending in
that direction.]
How should the ornamental nature of a claimed mark affect
whether such a claimed mark should be recognized as legally protectable or
registerable? What is the statutory anchor for consideration of ornamentality;
is there one? Does it need one?
Introduction: Mark
McKenna: This is a conversation about what it means to be a TM and what it
means to use matter in a way that violates a TM right. Nothing special about
ornamentality in this respect—it is that rather than being source-identifying,
or in addition to that. It might be one reason that a use does not infringe.
Ornamentality is denying it is used in a way that could cause confusion about
source. But being informational or functional might do the same thing, as might
descriptiveness. TM use: the return of the repressed. It’s always been clear to
McKenna that TM use is everywhere in TM law, but almost always implicit or
found in its absence. Thinking about its positive theorization is useful.
TM status: Distinctiveness is the 800 pound gorilla,
especially in the US. Reflexively falls back on secondary meaning as demarcator
of TM status, so we should think explicitly about distinctiveness and use as a
mark. Distinctiveness=nature of mark, sort of thing that can be a mark. Use=is
it in fact being used by this party as a TM. Ohio St. U’s registration for THE
for clothing and other merchandise by putting THE on a hangtag. Highlights that
our current thinking about use is overwhelmingly if not exclusively locational;
overreliance on that reflects lack of any other way to think about use as a
mark: if it’s in the right place, it’s fine.
Registration v. acquisition is also a big deal. Much of the
law is a collection of rules of thumb from registration context. Lettuce
Turnip the Beet: there just isn’t much nonregistration doctrine to explain why
this result is intuitively correct. Hard to think coherently about TM status
without thinking about registration v. use.
TM status and scope is also key: One use on a specimen gets
you registration. But the registration is for THE in block letters, none of the
limitations being implied, and courts are bad at scope so there’s no reason to
think that enforcement will be limited to what’s on the specimen. So even if we’re
persuaded on TM use we have to think about the scope of that right.
Validity and infringement relationship: plaintiffs can play
games about whether what they’re doing is use as a mark and what defendants are
doing. Roles of formalism and empiricism: Qs today ask about what standards we
should use for ornamentality. Skeptical that standards can meaningfully be applied
in ways that differentiate them in practice. Courts don’t know what primary
significance means and won’t be good at primarily or merely ornamental either.
But we should recognize that this is not either/or. Something is not a TM just
b/c it may or does indicate source. Frequently consumer understanding is mixed,
and responds to legal rules. We don’t need to and shouldn’t rely only on
consumer understanding but we should also account for important competition,
speech, and administrability reasons—courts are bad at managing scope. A
healthy dose of formalism will recognize that there are other values, and that
argues for rules (otherwise we end up pretending that consumer understanding
encompasses those other values).
Jeanne Fromer: Ornamentality in her view adds nothing new in
terms of acquisition of TM rights but gives us a category of symbols or uses of
symbols that don’t qualify for TM protection. It can apply to any category of
symbols—words, images, nontraditional categories—but may look different in each
category. TMEP: inconsistent on ornamentality b/c it is really asking: how do
we know what signifies source? TMEP suggests that if a mark is distinctive it’s
not ornamental, and suggests the opposite in other places. It’s just
incomplete. A symbol can be arbitrary/fanciful and still ornamental b/c we don’t
consider it to be a mark.
Ornamentality: the context of the use makes us think it’s
not serving as a source signifier even though in a different context it would
or could be perceived as a mark. Pragmatics branch of linguistics. “How are
you?” is interpreted differently depending on the context.
So how do we find salient aspects of context? A lot of that
is about location. Aesthetic functionality would help if we could pin it down.
External signifiers of other IP protection? If it’s about context,
ornamentality is dynamic, and could mean different things at different times
and does respond to consumer perception, which introduces a lot of confusion.
[Note that incontestability would then be a potentially big problem.]
Different sizes: could affect the actual symbol itself. The
THE registration was illuminating: even though there are lots of reasons not to
protect THE on a T-shirt regardless of whether you put it on a tag, THE alone
on a t-shirt is probably more likely to function as a mark than Lettuce Turnip
the Beet or I [heart] NY b/c there’s so much less reason for it to be on a
T-shirt than those things—it’s not an obviously cute slogan.
Other IP rights: utility patent creates presumption of
functionality; wonders about whether presence of non-TM IP protection for ornamental
features—design patent, ©--might create a presumption of mere ornamentality w/o
further evidence of source signification. Might address overlapping rights, as
well as concerns about failure to function. Opposite of the way that Copyright
Office has been refusing registration for certain logos. Tommy Hilfiger logo:
Office says it’s not original; they thought it was source indicating and
therefore not ornamental enough.
Ornamentality as opposite of utilitarian functionality, which
sounds like it supports TM status. But the concern here isn’t just
ornamentality but mere ornamentality. The former isn’t a problem for
protection, the latter is.
Allowing businesses to train consumers to think of
ornamental matter as marks: there’s a race to the bottom aspect in ways that
many have explored, including Lemley/McKenna in TM Spaces. Lululemon: consumers
are likely to perceive it that omega symbol as a source signifier, now that LL
has used it; normativity would push against allowing that to matter.
Discussant: Dev
Gangjee: Looseness of distinctiveness as a core TM feature. Things can be both
ornamental and source signification. In the EU, distinctiveness is always negative:
it’s proved not distinctive, not proved disctinctive. So that doesn’t lend
itself to nuanced treatment. But some areas do acknowledge nonbinary status:
descriptiveness. If one meaning is descriptive then it’s kept open; if acquired
distinctiveness is proven then there can be protection. Disclaimers/Laura Heymann’s
work in 2013: a consumer protection law approach to disclaimers about where you
expect to find information.
#Darferdas: EU says that we help the applicant any way: if
it is possible that it could function, then it is registrable. Hashtag for
clothing; German objection: it’s most likely to be on the front of a T-shirt where
it won’t function. EU says: if it is plausible that it could appear on the
label, then it is inherently distinctive (unless it is “cotton” or “machine
wash” etc.). That’s a nightmare. Similar result for chevrons on shoes, where
the registrant’s only problem was that the depiction of the mark showed it stitched
onto the shoe.
Banksy failed to register a bunch of his? artworks as TMs.
Knocked out on bad faith, which is an interesting place to find an ornamentality
objection. Banksy rejects © but tries to create a popup store for sales for TM
purposes. Bad faith objection fails b/c never intended to use as TMs; they were
widely circulated artworks; it’s always been a © and doesn’t function as a TM.
Boils down to intentionality: never intended or intends to use as a mark.
Dinwoodie: what would have happened in LTTB if they had
never gone to the PTO for registration? Profound question for US law.
Affixation would be a way to add formalism—he thinks it’s bad but it’s an
option. If you try some degree of formalism tied to ornamentality, what would
it be? Other IP subject matter might be an option (EU: adds substantial value;
if it could be protected by design right, then no TM—but doesn’t work well b/c
anything can be protected by design now); anything else? Would it make sense to
think of validity as a single question; is there enough room in the common law
to bring this all together?
Barton Beebe: A sign can be distinctive but not distinctive
of source. [Rock & Roll Hall of Fame case.] TM struggles with this b/c we used
to insist on “distinctive of source,” but we now seem to think that
being the exclusive user of a sign that is distinctive, your use will over time
create exclusive rights. If semiotic value, then right. [You don’t even need
time, with HONEY BADGER DON’T CARE] Formalism is totally justified as
resistance to that formulation exclusive use=exclusive rights. Mere
ornamentality is a way of saying “distinctive, but not of source.” We then
struggle to find a way to operationalize that. #Darferdas is an example of
that. GStar: similar case where exclusive use over time led to a finding of exclusive
rights.
Pragmatics would be very appropriate b/c it goes to
different context for distinctiveness, some of which are not distinctiveness of
source but distinctiveness of something else. Banksy’s whole schtick is to
create “difference” in a world of mass produced sameness.
RT: Distinctive, but not of source is a great formulation
and we should use it. Rock ‘n Roll Hall of Fame v. Honey Badger don’t care. [Honestly,
reviewing the difference
b/t the LL logo and the piping they tried to register made the decision
much more credible. That wasn’t the same symbol! So part of this is about
limiting scope even when you’ve established secondary meaning.]
Can we get anywhere by thinking about situations where
ornamentality could not be overcome by a change in context? Rejections for
being really really long/songs can’t serve as TMs for themselves: (1) not
serving TM function b/c that’s not how consumer perceptions work—TM is a shorthand.
Is this likely to be used as a shorthand? [Lisa Ramsey suggests that’s merely
informational] (2) Beebe’s work on signifier/signified—you have to be able to
distinguish the two, the mark can’t be a symbol for itself. So you might be
able to change the context by having a different signified entirely, but even
then the mark probably wouldn’t be the whole song.
on TM spaces—consider possibility of “certification mark
spaces” & resulting consumer protection implications
Conjoint analysis: given that you’re going to buy a
smartphone, which features matter? Maybe a tool for this inquiry?
McKenna: If there’s a drop of source indication, it seems to
be in now; it wasn’t always like that—technical TMs were a special category not
b/c there weren’t other source signifiers but b/c there were other
complications justifying two kinds of treatment. Losing that distinction was a
mistake and it’s the reason we lack normative language to talk about things
that aren’t marks. We should try to recover that; even some degree of source
identification is not the end of the story.
Things like THE show TM’s inability to distinguish recognition
of a reference from source-indicating significance. This is about recognizing
and reintroducing the idea that TM is not source in the abstract, but source of
these goods and services. TMs in the metaverse: TMs give you information
about goods and services; something that doesn’t do that is not a TM.
Robert Burrell: Problem is we rely too much on proxies like
how long, how much in sales. We need rules for ignoring those proxies. We want
the use to have a certain quality.
Case study in regulatory capture: Australian TM manual—Gangjee’s
concerns about Banksy but offices are in a difficult position. Person says “I
promise I plan to use this as a TM.” In a system w/o specimens, what more can
one do? 3d parties may challenge, but if you have 5 years in Europe or 3 years
in Australia to set up your business, it’s really hard to know what else
offices are supposed to do or demand.
Jennifer Davis: Banksy was absolutely clear that he wanted
to register the TM to protect his anonymity and control sales even though he
didn’t want to sell: honesty as bad faith!
Mike Grynberg: Two Pesos is a case of distinctiveness, but
not of source: no acquired distinctiveness but inherent distinctiveness—the original
sin of trade dress. Secondary meaning means different things at different times—not
TM meaning but rights allocation b/c of other things going on. The law is ok
giving rights to THE b/c of acquired distinctiveness of Ohio State in
general/prevalence of merchandising, even though THE is not performing a proper
TM function. LTTB: P doesn’t have acquired distinctiveness and trying to assert
the same kind of rights that Ohio States of the world get as a matter of course.
We don’t have a good way of explaining why that is. INTA LTTB amicus is very
clear about this: you can’t possibly hold a registered TM holder to a high
standard! Let’s stick up for the little guy! Secondary meaning (lack thereof)
can’t possibly be a shield! Distinctiveness, but not of source, is a right we
hand to TM owners but it’s not a TM right.
Ilanah Simon: In Europe, you can’t use overlap to police
boundaries. Every figurative TM will be protected by ©/design, built into the
system. W/o a registration requirement for the other right, the registration
authority would also turn into the arbiter of what is protectable by ©/design
rights, which is weird.
Jeremy Sheff: Overemphasis on distinctiveness to detriment
of other values is related to desire for formalism. Proposal for greater
symmetry: think about plain packaging regulation. Why not have it across all consumer
markets? The only way you can distinguish the product is in this specific way! This
doesn’t seem good, but why not? Articulating the reasons may help. Consumers
react in certain ways to certain signs, and that’s ok/to be encouraged and
harnessed. Then we get into not disallowing the use of signs, but regulating claims
to exclusive rights. We want to tolerate certain forms of consumer behavior [and
certain exploitations of those forms].
Beebe: East German TM regime encouraged colorful packages,
tried not to fall further behind in the market.
Mid-Point Discussants: Jessica Silbey: Aesthetic theory has
likewise struggled with categories/formalism. Aesthetics/art for its own sake spectacularly
failed in trying to categorize by who did it, the genre, the context (museum/not),
what it does (produces pure pleasure, expresses something about the world): all
failed. Why care about formal categories in the first place? There are certain values
behind the rules that require choices. Art/not art serves social, market,
political purposes; in TM, ornamental/not merely ornamental requires us to be
explicit about values underlying that choice.
Where else in TM are there formalistic categories we can
feel confident about? Utilitarian functionality—formalism hasn’t worked
perfectly but we are confident about Traffix as a rule shoveling some
things into utility patent even if distinctive of source. Can we make
any rules?
Rogers v. Grimaldi: artistic relevance above zero—should
ornamentality above zero do something to exclusivity? Arbitrary word mark
category may also count as formalistic, though maybe there’s uncertainty about
that given THE and similar cases. It served us well as a clear rule.
Ornamentality might be able to draw some ideas from scenes a
faire in copyright. So too with idea/expression.
Merchandising right: ornamenting the person—think about
merchandising as art, enhancing the self-presentation of the person.
Jennifer Davis: After the Directive harmonizing TMs, all the
law is what a TM isn’t and we have no positive definition of what a TM is. Courts
have wanted to exclude registration of nonfunctioning matter, but TRIPS said
that all kinds of matter is registrable, so they used distinctiveness to manage
this. Came up with: Not distinctive unless diverges substantially from norms
and customs of the sector in which the mark is used. No need to inquire into
functionality if there is no substantial divergence. Mag-Torch and London
taxicabs. Thus shape registration has been difficult through the use of
distinctiveness. No need for consumer perception analysis if the court can
examine what’s in the sector.
Ahsgar Ohly: Acquired distinctiveness is a possibility in
the case of shapes and not a huge standard.
Davis: there are some safeguards there as well.
Simon: 2 successful showings in five years in her
examination of EU, though it might be happening more at the national level
(where it might be easier).
Luis Porangaba: Note that Lindt bunny case is an example
where applicant had many national registrations in EU but couldn’t get an EU registration.
Ohly: may be able to obtain registrations in markets where
it’s truly relevant even if can’t show acquired distinctiveness throughout EU.
Lisa Ramsey: Free expression and competitiveness
considerations: large brands/celebrities can teach you to associate a weak mark
w/their company can be problematic. DC/Marvel own a joint registration for
SUPERHEROES for comic books/entertainment/apparel/toys. This term is really
generic for a genre, but there’s the registration. Lifeguard Licensing owns
registrations for LIFEGUARD for lots of goods including apparel. This would be
considered arbitrary, but there’s a real competitive need for products for lifeguards.
Yet the company is aggressive against anyone using that term. It’s
informational/ornamental. Crystal Head vodka: celebrities promoting the skull bottle.
If we want to leave certain matter in the public domain, we need to account for
the ability to create de facto secondary meaning.
Although Lifeguard is using the mark on tags, it is also and
primarily using the mark decoratively/informationally; this should matter to
enforceability. A type of abandonment. [Or generic/aesthetic use by the TM
owner.] More proof requirements for acquired distinctiveness will not help
reduce the advantage of big companies.
Failure to qualify as a mark might be a way to highlight the
normative components of failure to function. Could also read morality
provisions in EU law in ways to acknowledge freedom of expression and freedom
to compete.
Ohly: Vigeland case, where Oslo tried to register pictures
of sculptures in the public domain to control the merchandising market/prevent
distasteful merchandising. Is there a conflict w/© policy and what are the
levers? Public morality exclusion, bad faith, ornamentality/lack of
distinctiveness might be another one—German court dealt with attempted
registration of MONA LISA, which was rejected by saying that ornamentality can
never be overcome by context b/c its nonTM meaning will always dominate. Perhaps
we should be explicit about ©’s affirmative values rather than hiding them in ornamentality.
Parallel cases: ECJ is Neuschwanstein—state of Bavaria tried
to register for all goods, but the problem was not just that it was distinctive,
but not of source; but that it was an attempt to control culture—same questions:
is it source indicative? Should we extend TM to cultural heritage? Ornamentality
is not really what mattered.
#darferdas: The German court made the point that this wasn’t
TM distinctiveness but that never made it to the European court. Use as a mark
turns into a defense; German courts always examine TM use; not clear whether EU
application of double identity will prevent that assessment in #darferdas type
cases.
Porangaba: we’re all trying to find a middle ground with different
means. Registration/infringement divides—in Europe, we make allowances for
registration, serving as a cautionary tale about excessive formalism. Manipulation
of claim drafting, as discussed in paper by Gangjee. Registrations issued for
goods related to goods for which the putative mark is functional—failure to
function might be a good way to deal with that. Problem of having too much
doctrine for what the registration system was conceived of as doing a century
ago. Can we reframe the system without adding doctrine? Is this really a
problem deserving a new doctrine? Access to registration for SMEs is an issue.
Beebe: we have very few failure to function court cases, but
failure to function is spiking as a ground for refusing registration, even
though too much doctrine is also an issue.
McKenna: Too much doctrine is a result of allowing too much
into the TM category; now that unfair competition is also TM, we need a bunch
of doctrines to deal with the fact that TMs are now not all the same and raise
many different issues.
What happens in TM is now “if we have doubts, just make them
show secondary meaning,” b/c we’re used to using distinctiveness as the measure
of everything. Very frequently, courts do not accept longterm use/sales
evidence as evidence of secondary meaning for shape/product configuration—they’re
not sure that the supposed circumstantial markers of secondary meaning are correct
signals. These aren’t really secondary meaning cases; the courts are suspicious
that in fact the shape etc. is not being used as a mark. But secondary meaning
is the one hammer that we have. It turns out to be unsatisfactory. What could
the party do to persuade you that there should be protection? [Survey evidence?
Evidence of widespread actual confusion?]
Jake Linford: what do we think consumers do if we create a
huge prophylactic rule? Imagine it’s 1974 and we’re looking at the first Ralph
Lauren polo shirt. Do we say it’s ornamental? Maybe we do. Or the first jean
logo on the back of pants, or the SUPREME logo. Not sure how consumers respond.
If there is hydraulic pressure from consumers, b/c consumers need shortcuts to
find the products they want, then you get a situation where there’s lots of competition
that’s confusion. Copyright is a bit different; not a big fan of Dastar.
Why are we more comfortable with utilitarian functionality?
Seems more fixed than aesthetic functionality—things do what they do; courts
and sellers may find it easier to understand when we tell them they can’t
protect utilitarian functionality. Perhaps fanciful/arbitrary is like that,
sending a fairly clear signal.
RT: Linford’s point on the alternate 1970s: confusion v.
materiality—consumers wouldn’t be confused about whether the polo logo is on
the shirt! If that’s what they sought, that’s what they’d get.
Mona Lisa: I think that’s what’s going on with rejections of
the N-word in the US too. NonTM meaning can have levels of intensity too, which
is not limited to being cultural touchstones though that’s a good example where
nonTM meaning may be hard to overcome. A new joke may not have specific cultural
history but its joke function may be hard to dislodge with TM meaning. What
would recognizing that look like? Honey
Badger Don’t Care.
Silbey’s point about formalism and the category of arbitrary
word marks: This is the Carol Rose crystals and mud stuff I’m going to talk about
later: the arbitrary category served us well and therefore lots of people
piled into the category and made it fail. Not yet mentioned: Grace
McLaughlin’s note on weird marks that are completely indistinguishable from one
another So the system can’t rest on its laurels; Abercrombie is not failing
because it’s inherently flawed, it’s failing because it’s old and people have
learned how to manipulate it.
Sheff: formalism could be about the relationship between doctrinal
categories/rules. Traffix may work to shove a bunch of subject matter
into patent. One reason might be that utilitarian functionality is easier for
courts to understand. That might be true w/r/t certain prongs of Traffix,
though not Morton-Norwich, related to the rules/standards division. That’s
different from the relationship b/t the category functional and the category distinctive,
which is governed at least in part by §2(e)(5), which says that notwithstanding
distinctiveness, it’s not protectable if it’s functional. This is a formalist
rule about the relationship b/t the categories: functionality overrides distinctiveness.
The q for us today is “does that relationship also hold for the relationship
b/t the category ‘merely ornamental’ and the category ‘distinctive.’” The TMEP
says that the categories are disjoint/do not overlap. But what do we do when
that’s not true: distinctive but aesthetically functional; ornamental but some distinctiveness?
We might create a new categorical rule. Louboutin as generative of his
thinking on this—Second Circuit rejected a formalist move to say that fashion
doesn’t allow single color TM. But it didn’t replace it with anything! It still
reached the same result on a particular claim, but only in reliance on a claim
that there was no “use” of the TM. What do we do when the categories intersect?
Ohly: mirrored in European law in the relationship b/t
distinctiveness v adding value to the product; the latter cannot be overcome by
acquired distinctiveness, but the Q of what “substantial value” means does
create instability.
McKenna: when you say “merely ornamental means not
distinctive,” that invites at the retail the claimant saying “distinctive thus
not merely ornamental.”
Sheff: so the TMEP’s claim of disjoint categories is the key
issue.
Gangjee: Adidas cases with stripes on clothes presents the
issue of TM function expands to alleged infringement for using other numbers of
stripes—ornamentality/aesthetic functionality may give us reasons to keep the scope
narrower than infringement doctrine would otherwise allow.
Registration systems and use systems are a spectrum: hyperformalism
is working only in one direction in the EU to allow registration; presume a
pro-registration outcome, but then you don’t actually make the TM owner commit
to using that way in the future. EU disclaimers have completely collapsed b/c consumers
don’t care about them—so suddenly we do care about what consumers think! Only
works in one direction. Nonuse/revocation is not promising in the EU context
either—only about 4600 claims in 22 years for 2.1 million registrations, nearly
half figurative. We can’t expect post-5 year nonuse being any reasonable check.
Porangaba: revocation is useless b/c time is of the essence
in most marketing decisions.
Davis: we’re talking about brands: if you become a brand, getting
aesthetic and emotional meanings, should you lose your TM? Does it matter that
Burberry was adopted by football hooligans? For them it wasn’t about source but
about signalling membership in the community?
Dinwoodie: potential gap between consumer recognition and
source association.
Some formal rules work better than others: Wal-Mart
does some things well, but there has also been gaming of the system. McKenna
wants formal solutions in TM and pushing to unfair competition which is the opposite
of formalism.
McKenna: they do different things.
Dinwoodie: but then people just plead §43(a) and get around
your limits on TM.
Sheff: Old, premerger TM was the crystal to premerger unfair
competition’s mud. That’s different from the relationship b/t categories like functional
and distinctive. Formalism may create inefficiency and uncertainty too. Wal-Mart
might be worth it in avoiding a bunch of terrible claims, but not always.
Ohly: notes increasing formalization of unfair competition
too in Europe.
McKenna: they depend on each other: formalism of TM was
enabled by virtue of having an equitable release valve, but only worked b/c had
narrow conception of what it was trying to do—it was a passing off rule (that
accepted any evidence you wanted to submit about why this incident was passing
off). Maybe people would recognize a polo image on the front of a shirt b/c
they saw it on the hang tag first—the system could allow you to prove that—but now
we have the worst of both words, with layer on layer of doctrine that gives you
the inflexibility of TM and the muddiness of unfair competition.
Grynberg: equity winds up in defenses, but with a doctrinal
mush as in LTTB. Both need to clarify defenses and avoid having too many boxes
for the system to work. Language of registration: no mark that is distinctive
shall be refused unless … But that would allow for a lot of developments about the
concept before the “unless.” Federal Circuit approved refusal of .sucks on F2F
grounds, but we are one bad ruling away from really messing with that.
Ramsey: focus on whether particular subject matter had
substantial value at the time it was adopted as a TM. That could help
distinguish value conferred by brand value/Au-tomotive Gold from attempts to
register Black Lives Matter etc. Is therefore ok w/outcome of Honey Badger, as
a potential compromise. [this is the collapse of TM value into value: he
created the phrase as part of a video—for which he copied the footage from elsewhere,
not for nothing—that had copyright value, but he didn’t create any TM
meaning or value.]
Silbey: “too much nonTM meaning” and “substantial meaning
when adopted” has her thinking about fame. Meaning can change over time so we
should be wary of that [but then again we see lots of people trying to
appropriate things with lots of nonTM meaning, so we should perhaps at least
presume that it hasn’t unless the claimant shows that the nonTM meaning is no
longer prevalent. This is a proposal about the kinds of claims TM systems are
likely to see, not a proposal about meaning in general].
Simon: the meaning of “adds value” may be gamed. Suddenly
everything adds value. Copyright overlaps may be a source of the problems.
Grynberg: free riding is a two-way street and lots of times
merchandisers are free riding on someone else’s innovation.