The other sessions
overlapped with my teaching, unfortunately, including Register Perlmutter’s
opening remarks.
11:00AM – 12:30PM Session
2
Meta, Rob Arcamona: Meta
takes © and creativity very seriously, developed content protection tools
beyond legal obligation. Developed hand in hand w/content owners; voluntary cooperation
is successful.
Microsoft, Lauren
Chamblee: Historically engaged w/rightsholders for © concerns. Four key points:
(1) One side fits all approach is burdensome for different stakeholders
depending on level of control over content, different platforms attracting
different content—search engine and cloud computing policies differ. (2) certain
measures are harder to implement in cloud space. Customers/sensitive industries
like healthcare, finance, and banking that use encryption. Cloud providers can’t
implement certain measures that might work elsewhere. (3) Implementation can
present resource challenges for smaller platforms/platforms w/ few infringement
challenges. Forcing them to reallocate resources not justified by the
infringement on their platforms can be bad and lead to overblocking. (4)
incentivize innovative solutions addressing specific concerns on specific platforms
rather than adopting generic solutions that don’t work in context.
GitHub, Rose Coogan:
More than 73 million creators—students, developers, startups, NGOs, governments
using GitHub to collaborate on open source. Large part of what makes developer
community from other communities. Not traditional © content. Unique expertise
on code too; code is different from photos, music, videos; some of the most
valuable code on GitHub is licensed openly. Remediation not removal is often the goal—changes
to the code rather than removing often resolves the problem, e.g. addressing
violation of open source license by adding attribution etc. under terms of
relevant license. Taking down code is significant; consequences of removal
often disproportionate to interests of © owner; can break lots of programs that
depend on availability of that code. Analysis of infringement claims for code
can be not very simple. Tech measures at scale will rarely if ever be
acceptable proxy for analyzing infringement claims.
CTIA, Kathryn
Dall’Asta: Wireless communication industry. Flexible, not one size fits all.
Wikimedia Foundation,
Jacob Rogers: DMCA compliance lead for 7 years. Nonprofit hosts several
projects including Wikipedia, 100s of 1000s of users contributing content
around the world. Designed to be freely available licensed or public domain; we
occasionally use fair use images where no free image is available, such as when
a famous work has been destroyed. Careful justifications/written record when we
make those exceptions. Limitations of tech measures: our users have their own
processes for reviewing © works and their own tools for flagging for potential
review, leading to very small number of DMCA notices. When we do get them, esp
from automated tools, they are very low quality. Less than 1 in 5 notices are
valid for our projects. Tend to discourage/demoralize our volunteers, so we
review very carefully and reject when invalid. Encourage CO to think carefully
about smaller nonprofit and educational uses.
Organization for
Transformative Works, Rebecca Tushnet: The Organization for Transformative
Works (“OTW”) is a nonprofit established to protect and defend fans and
fanworks from commercial exploitation and legal challenge. The OTW’s nonprofit,
volunteer-operated website hosting transformative noncommercial works, the
Archive of Our Own, was launched in late 2009. It has over 4.2 million
registered users, hosts over 8.5 million unique works, and receives
approximately 440 million page views per week, on a budget of slightly over
half a million dollars per year. [I made a NYT comparison but other sources
disagree with the numbers I found—so it’s probably most fair to say that we’re
in roughly the same class as the NYT for visits.]
Our story explains
why it is a mirage to float the idea of standard technical measures adequate to
distinguish infringing materials from non-infringing materials on the Archive
of Our Own and similar websites. Like most large websites that are not in the
news every day, we receive very few copyright claims despite our size. I have
been working with the OTW since its inception, and we have never received more
than a handful of copyright claims per year. Our modal DMCA notice is from a
person who deleted their account without removing their works and now wants
them removed even though they initially posted the works to the site. We do
receive copyright claims based on titles or trademarks, which are invalid, and
while we occasionally receive a valid claim not based on an initially authorized
posting, our records indicate that we have never received a second copyright
notice based on rights in the same complaining work.
Given all this, the
idea of using technical measures to prescreen content is foolish and
counterproductive. It would impose substantial costs that we don’t have the
resources to afford and would have prevented literally zero of the claims we
have received over 13 years in existence, sacrificing 8.5 million new creations
for no purpose. We are unusually successful for a nonprofit website, but we are
not unusual in the nonexistent benefit of technological filtering or our
inability to afford such features—the cost-benefit analysis for websites like
ours is just completely different from the cost-benefit analysis of charismatic
megasites like Facebook.
In addition, our
constituents routinely report that they have trouble making transformative fair
uses elsewhere on sites like YouTube, notwithstanding that they are fair uses,
which filtering software cannot detect. We are, for example, deeply concerned
about identifying Scribd’s BookID as a potential model, when Scribd has
rightfully acknowledged its significant limitations, including its routine
misidentification of public domain materials and quotes that get caught in its
filters. The same problems arose for Audible Magic, especially with the
pandemic shift to live streamed performances, when classical concerts were
wrongly flagged as copies of existing recordings, and for Content ID, showing
that misidentification is a pervasive problem without a technical fix.
RIAA, Victoria
Sheckler: Internet is amazing but is also a vehicle for distributing pirated
content, unfairly competing w/licensed content. Appreciate voluntary technical measures
developed to ID sound recordings and determine what to do w/them.
Cloudflare, Alissa
Starzak: Tech measures used by platforms do not work for infrastructure
providers and could have profound impacts on privacy and security. Cloudflare
takes voluntary tech measures that would be completely inapplicable to others—rightsholders
object that we protect sites from attack even though we don’t host; we can
route the complaints to the host. Natural instinct is that one measure should
be equally applicable to all sorts of providers, but that mistakes the diversity
in the system.
Black Music Action
Coalition, Willie “Prophet” Stiggers: Founded to combat racism in the music
industry. Appreciate CO efforts; looking to protect Black artists.
Pex, Megumi Yukie: Provides
technical measures for ID’ing, protecting and licensing © works through
Attribution Engine.
Q: how do current
tech measures affect users, rightsholders, providers?
Scheckler: the
existing measures help radically in id’ing content, facilitating license/use,
protecting/stopping unauthorized use. TDEX is a multistakeholder body creating
better licensing of music. Automated permission technologies include third-party
services like Audible Magic and Pex and proprietary systems like Content ID.
None are perfect but dramatically ease friction.
Chamblee: some are
applicable to platforms that host UGC that has a lot of rightsholder content.
Harder on, e.g., enterprise platform where providers don’t have access to
content hosted on their site. Can pass on complaints to customer w/o having
access to content. Tech measures that are useful in one place aren’t always
useful in other contexts.
Scheckler: not a one
size fits all policy. What works on a search engine won’t necessarily work on
UGC platform. But that doesn’t end the inquiry. We do have certain APIs w/large
search engines to assist them identifying infringement.
Starzak: there are
lots of kinds of measures; the CO notice was focused on large platforms’ uses.
But tech measures that allow rightsholders to submit claims are part of the
ecosystem too. We have a variety of different players. The idea of standardization
under legal process is very different than voluntary mechanism. Once a gov’t
process starts, it starts to look like a legal regime and not a voluntary
regime. Goal is to think about different voluntary measures, not one size fits
all.
Rob Arcamona:
interested in continuing voluntary cooperation. Infringement is against our
TOS, and developing new system is in our users’ interests, since they are often
creators; we want to create a system that works for them. Not only are some
services different from social media, one social media platform may differ very
much from each other. [Respect for getting FB’s antitrust message out in this
space!] The types of speech and the types of infringement that occur on one may
not occur on another. Narrowly tailored solutions are the most effective.
Rogers: we have a
similar thing at Wikimedia. One of the most requested tool from volunteers is a
better tool to detect plagiarism. Want to assure our projects are freely
available for use; the importance of variation is critical. When we see CO
mentioning tools that rely on scanning works before upload, that raises lots of
concerns; preempts open discussion and user processes used on Wikipedia and could
be very disruptive.
Scheckler: think
about implementation characteristics. Automated content recognition: how good
is the tech to ID the work at issue, which depends on the type of work. Second,
once you recognize that work, what are you going to do about it? That’s
tailoring for specific platforms and users. Wants to distinguish b/t underlying
tech and business rules for implementing it on any given platform.
Yukie: Pex sees
benefits to all sides in using our tech measures. © holder can register assets
and ID content and be fairly compensated; all sizes of rights holders can
benefit, including indiv. creators who might not have same level of
access/opportunity to monetize. Smaller and up and coming OSPs get a
cost-effective solution that allows easy licensing and provide authorized
content. Might not have the same access to level playing field in seeking licenses
directly from rights owners. One of our clients: up and coming app that allows
users to upload clips of selves dancing to popular music; friendly competition.
To succeed, needs to allow DanceFight users to use the songs. Pex allows
DanceFight to afford this in absence of large resources/name recognition. Users
don’t have to worry about takedowns; can also register their © works in our
asset registry.
Stiggers: Which
artists’ organizations are at the table in these discussions? We haven’t been
at the table for the most part.
Arcamona: We
regularly meet with large studios and individual creators and organizations
that represent individual creators including those on the panel today [does he
mean RIAA?]. Development has to be deliberate.
Dall’Asta: Narrow
tailoring b/c there are differences in implementation and what’s appropriate.
RT: Sorry to be a
party pooper, one size doesn’t fit all is not a full description of the
tradeoffs. In other fora, content owners complain viciously about Content ID
missing stuff; I’m sure there is underblocking and there is also a lot of overblocking
especially of fair use and public domain material (Fox runs a NASA clip and
then NASA content gets blocked). So the tradeoff is not just are you big enough
to justify using these measures but also these measures have serious costs to
creators.
Coogan: One size
fits all doesn’t work. We’ve found that automated notices are very rarely valid—that
has to be taken into consideration.
Q: what features of
new technical measures would be important to success?
Rogers: Note there
are less scrupulous organizations that use content ID tools to harass people
making appropriate lawful uses. Don’t just think about the technical tools, but
think about what bad actors will do with the technical information they’re
getting. An ID tool should avoid ID’ing people who are in cross hairs in the first
place.
Arcamona: Have to
develop with eye towards misuse, both intentional or unintentional (like Fox
forgetting to exclude its NASA clip). Has to be deliberate.
Scheckler: there are
differences b/t Wikipedia and fandom sites and sites that trade on music. We
often see completely bogus counternotices—the focus on abuse has to be on both
sides of the house. Tech measures can still move the ball forward.
RT: Designing for
abuse is a great idea and not something that 512 and 1201 did. For example,
privacy concerns with notices and counternotices. I’m sure there are abusive
counternotices but what I’ve seen is about Google and Google does have side
deals that allow rightsholders to override counternotices. We should have
people who don’t focus on © but do focus on abuse talk to us about system
design. One thing that would help: a clear statement from the CO that screening
DMCA notices for quality does not disentitle a platform from the safe harbor
w/r/t other instances of putative infringement.
Starzak: Laboratory
of experiments is useful on the abuse and innovation sides.
Yukie: misuse and
fair use: Pex has tried to address these w/processes. Fingerprinting and
matching itself should be available to everyone. All rightsholders should be
able to register and license content. But to properly implement that there need
to be anti-misuse provisions. So we try to prevent rightsholders to prevent
claiming content they don’t own, and have downstream dispute mechanisms.
RT: Germany’s
proposed implementation of new © rules w/quantitative thresholds for filtering,
mandatory ADR—nobody is talking about it, but some of the companies here might
have to implement it. One Q: are they going to do it worldwide? That could obviate
some parts of this proceeding and make other questions salient.
Chamblee: Europe
does exclude enterprise service platforms and online source code sharing platforms,
so this proceeding is broader.
Q: what role do you
see tech measures playing in the future and how will that play out in
costs/benefits for those involved in their use?
Starzak: what you’ve
heard from everyone is that there are already a lot of tech measures already in
play. They will continue to be developed. Q even on the European side is what
does that look like and what effect does that have in the long term? That depends
on implementation!
RT: Jennifer
Urban et al—DMCA Plus and DMCA Classic—empirical work shows that business
forces do drive innovation over and above and perhaps regardless of the legal
framework. As Europe’s struggles with implementing its changes continue, it may
be that it is very hard for law to affect what the tech does/can do. This is a
space to monitor but perhaps law doesn’t have all that much to say.
Scheckler: costs
will go down b/c that’s what time does to the cost of tech. [That’s not really
true of costs of overblocking—it’s a limited definition of costs.]
Arcamona:
Effectiveness is the key question, and that comes from customization and
voluntary cooperation among industry members. Systems for incentivizing
creativity and promoting it on our platform: we have an independent artist
program allowing licensing on our platform, and we cover the costs for that—collaboration
can protect © and expression.
Rogers: Not just
seeing what tech evolves but what evolves to be effective is very important.
Using algorithms to help humans do better work is likely to be more productive
in long run than automated tools, which both over- and under-identify.
Coogan: we see a lot
of third party submitters with an automated system that searches platform for
keywords like company name, w/o considering context of use. W/o humans able to
evaluate what comes out of the results, we see a lot of invalid takedowns,
which goes to effectiveness. Existing tools are based on music or video and do
not take into account things like code. [Preach!]
Chamblee: In certain
platforms, fair use might be particular concerns—have to be tailored to the
platform.
RT: Echo Rose Coogan’s
statements on the last question: existing tools are optimized for video and
music; super important point that hasn’t gotten much airtime, which is why we
are so concerned about touting Scribd as a model. Compare Amazon experience
where they told the CO at the 512 roundtables that over half of the takedowns
they get for their Kindle Direct self publishing arm—also text—are invalid.